00:05 What I was going to do is like a, oh, I’ll do a run here, maybe a run a week. I work just as hard now as I ever have, right? And why do I do it? Because I like it. Everything’s not about money. I still do this cuz I like driving those trucks. You get to make money and do something you like to do. And that’s what’s good about this industry.

00:33 Welcome to Six-Figure Trucker, the podcast where we share advice on how to be successful in trucking and have fun while doing so. We’ll share stories, news, and advice on how to earn six figures in trucking. And we’ll speak to guys and gals that are already doing so. Let’s get to the show. Welcome to the Six-Figure Trucker with Gerard Lehman, one of our drivers here at Norton Transport. We’re very happy to have Gerard on board. Gerard, welcome to you.

01:02 Oh, thanks for giving me this opportunity to have a conversation with you.

01:07 Tell us about what your week has looked like so far as out on the road.

01:12 This was this past week I took I went up to Binghamton, New York, delivered a truck up there. Or the ride may have been the roughest ride I’ve ever had. And that that that does not, you know, take cars out of it, just driving trucks. This may have been the roughest ride I ever had. This was a this particular vehicle was a nonCDL truck. It was a cab and chassis, so no weight, single, just a single tandem. And part of the way I had, of course, I had to go up through Ohio a little bit, just a short piece through Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania interstates are bad. But when I got into Ohio, I ended up on 86, Interstate 86. And that surface was so bad, this truck literally beat my brains in.

02:05 Oh my goodness.

02:06 My jaw my jawline actually hurt when I got at the truck stop that night. Just got bounced around a lot. But then got on a Greyhound and went to Macungie, Pennsylvania. And now here’s some balance in this, John. I picked up a beautiful Mack Anthem full sleeper, a really nice truck. The Mack Incorpor, you know, Mack got bought out by Volvo in 2006.

02:32 Mhm. Are and Mack has they have now they’re using the Volvo suspension in their Anthem and probably in their Granite, but this truck just cruised down. I had to take it to Aurora, Indiana, and this thing was a dream ride. So, as rough a ride I had going up, I had that smoother ride—

02:53 Kind of going down kind of a ying and yang type thing there.

02:57 Yeah. You know, I was so annoyed with that ride up to Binghamton. It’s just I actually now I’ve said this many times. I said this is it. I’m not doing any more of these non CDL cab and chassis, you know, no air ride suspension. I’m not doing any more of these. But I’ve said that many times and I continue to take them. So yeah, it was a perfect balance. I forgot when I got in that Mack and started going, I forgot about that ride on the way up.

03:23 Now, you know, you were talking about the balance between you had the rough ride. Was it the unit or was it more the condition of the roads?

03:33 Oh, it’s combination. There’s no weight. A short chassis, one set, one tandem axle, and there’s no absorption of the shock when you go over these bumps and whatever. So, it just the truck can’t do anything but bounce and jolt. So, if you take a Big Mac sleeper like I had went over the same road, you’re— Yeah. I mean any vehicle is going to feel some bumps but you don’t get the jolts—

03:59 Right—

04:00 And that so it was a combination of the road surface there’s still New York that state needs an immense amount of road surface reconditioning and 86 was terrible interstate 86 terrible—

04:16 What part of New York are we talking about there—

04:18 Binghamton is a one hour south of Syracuse Right. I got you. Now, you were talking about how the balance to the good side was when you got in a Mack. You I wanted to touch a little bit on before the good side, you were talking about you could feel it in your jaws.

04:38 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. My jaw. Yeah. I actually, you know, I still go to I have two children, 20 and 18. We still go to the amusement park in Cincinnati. It’s Kings Island. And I still ride the roller coasters. At 66, I still get on them. I think people in line are making wagers if I’m gonna make it back. Okay. But I love the roller coasters, but I there’s some rides still that’ll jolt you. If you don’t lay your head back against the seat back, you’ll get it in the neck and you want to keep your mouth open. There’s certain coasters in the United States, they will tell you to keep your mouth open. And on this truck on the way up I’ve even bit my tongue before on a ride like this. And my jawline has hurt. And that’s it sounds silly as hell that you want to ride a little bit, especially on 84 or 86. 81 is rough, too, that you kind of want to keep your mouth a little bit open.

05:37 Gotcha. Now, you were I wanted to ask you a little bit about this, not about trucking, but 66 roller coaster fan. What’s your favorite amusement park and why? Oh, the favorite amusement park is in Cleveland. Oh, what the hell’s the name of it? See, now I’m proving I’m 66. Oh, it’s a mecca for roller coasters. Cedar Point.

05:59 Oh, yeah.

05:59 And that is the king of roller coasters. If you’re a roller coaster fan, you got to go. I don’t care where you live in the United States, you got to go to Cedar Point up in the Cleveland cuz it’s just tons and tons of coasters. I’m close to Kings Island. They’ve got great roller coasters. They still have what’s voted worldwide as the best roller coaster in all of the United States by far called the Beast and it was built in 1974. The park opened in 72. The Beast came in 74. It’s a wood roller coaster and it’s an incredible. It’s rough, bounces, bangs you around. But th these newest ones on the rail on the steel rails are incredible. No bouncing, no jolting, just pure speed turns.

06:47 So, anything any place that has good coasters is a favorite of mine.

06:51 Gotcha. Gerard Lehman here with us on the Six-Figure Trucker. What is it about roller coasters that pulls you in?

06:57 Me being able to get on them today. Me being able to get on them and I me and my kids are very close. So, the three of us, we love going to the amusement park. And if Avery, my kids’ names are Avery and Cameron, if they don’t ride together, when they ride together, I ride by myself and then I always welcome someone who’s by themselves to jump in with me. And then sometimes each of my kids will take turns to ride with me. I yell, you know, I carry on and it’s just it’s a GeForce. They have a new ride called the Orion and it is a mega coaster. You feel like when you go down the first hill that you’re going inward.

07:39 Oh wow.

07:40 When you’re— Yeah. It’s— It’ll take your breath away. And the GeForce is incredible. Then when you come up out of that hill and go up over the next one, it’s just the force. It’s the thrill. So it’s just the overall thrill and excitement. And yet we get off of it and get right back in line many times.

08:01 Would you say would it be safe to say that you’re a kid at heart? I still have it in me. Yep.

08:06 Now, you were talking about getting back in line. How many times, if you can remember from recollection, have you ridden the same coaster consecutively?

08:16 Oh, I’d say I’d say three. After a while, my patience does wear out standing in line because sometimes you’ll stand in line two hours. So, you figure, you know, get off a 4m minute ride, get back on for another two hours. After a while, you just need to go because you’re standing. You’re sitting for four minutes. You’re standing for many hours. So, I have to walk around.

08:40 I gotcha. Now, you said the word patience there, and I wanted to talk a little bit about patience as a driver. You and I have had a little bit of history here. We’ve worked together with each other, but talk a little bit about the patience that is an essential requirement of a driver.

08:56 Okay. When I think of patience, we’re not talking about traffic backup sitting in traffic. When I talk patience in a truck, it’s the patience with your focus. I don’t care. I drive a lot at night. This Sunday, this weekend, late Sunday night, I’m taking a run for your company, for our company. And I don’t care if you’re on the interstate with not many cars and you’re just you say to yourself, “Boy, this is a nice evening for driving. There’s hardly no traffic.” You still have to maintain that 100% focus.

09:33 You cannot get complacent. You cannot get complacent if you’re the only one on the road. So that’s in my opinion is where the patience you have to continually say to yourself look ahead 12 to 15 seconds look at those mirrors right and left side every 7 to 10 seconds so you know your surroundings and you have to keep doing that and the patience comes and staying focused. Is that a routine you’ve built into yourself kind of like a say you know we got the NBA finals going on now like a free throw shot it’s muscle memory where you remember to look ahead of you the time frame you were a loting there check your mirrors is that something that becomes I guess for lack of a better word a reflex—

10:20 Well that’s a good question because habit seeing a habit yeah that there very well could be reflex in that I learned that looking out the side mirrors a guy that I knew he’s retired— Now, he drove for UPS for over 30 years and he drove a semi and he plus he drove the dual trailers and when a rider when a supervisor a monitor rides with you, that’s one of the things they look at. UPS drivers have to check their side mirrors every seven seconds.

10:51 Oh, wow.

10:52 And I thought, wow, that that’s just kind of that’s overdoing it. You know what? Get in some heavy traffic. Get on the Pennsylvania turnpike in heavy traffic and seven seconds is not that’s not too frequent—

11:07 Right? I mean, when you build that into your driving habits and reflexes we were talking about, how much more does that lend into having a successful transport?

11:19 Well, first of all, a successful transport is getting the truck there with no incidents. I don’t care if you get it there two hours late, a half a day late, maybe even a day late. There if there’s reasons for that, not excuses. If there’s reasons for that, if you got the truck there with no incident and the customer signed off on your bill lighting, that’s a successful trip. What caused the delays? What caused it being late? That’s secondary.

11:48 Right. I like your outlook and your attitude because, you know, we had mentioned it earlier before. You and I have talked before. We had laid out what was going to be a beautiful load plan from Ohio to Maryland. And help me out Gerard here. Where was it from Maryland that the next leg of that that—

12:06 Finland, New Jersey?

12:08 Right. Right. We had that laid out. But as you know, as a driver, rarely or not always, I don’t want to use the word rarely, but not always things happen the way that we thought they would. But I guess as a driver, you have to be prepared for anything. Well, here’s an example. You’re correct. And here’s an example. Last week on a Monday morning around 9:00 a.m. I’m heading up I7 I7. And all of a sudden, I see the two or three two state troopers and a county sheriff, you know, cars, squad cars on the right side, right shoulder of the road. All the lights are on. I thought—

12:54 We got something going on here.

12:56 And what while they were there, they’re waiting for this huge tow truck, a driver looked like it looked like he made a semi right turn. Not a full right angle and looked like he drove directly into the trees.

13:13 Oh boy.

13:14 This truck was not turned over. It was not jack knife. The cab was bashed because it hit some trees. It looked like he pulled it in there at a high speed. Now, what does that probably tell you? He fell asleep.

13:30 And it sounds like it.

13:31 Yep. So, every time I see that, and I’ve listened to truck truckers at truck stop say the same thing. You say, “Thank you, God, for hopefully that person is not injured and he doesn’t lose his job”

13:47 If he’s a employee driver. And you say to yourself, that is where you keep talking to yourself about staying focused. And if you’re tired, you get off the road.

14:02 You know, you’re touching on some very important points. The safety aspect of driving a big rig or driving whatever it may be that you’re driving, be it a hydrovac or a mixer or whatever type of unit you are driving. When do you know at that point? I mean, you see that it’s got to be a reminder when you see a truck off the road and it looks from all appearances that someone fell asleep at the wheel. When do you know to make that decision?

14:29 You just know. I don’t care. You could be driving a Volkswagen Beetle or a Mini Cooper. If you start to get heavy eyed, you know, yawning is not a signal. I mean, I’ve driven many times and I’ve yawned every six minutes. Tired and sleepy are two different things. You yawn because you’re tired. You get heavy eyed because you’re sleepy. When you feel like you’re getting sleepy, you don’t wait another 20 minutes. You don’t wait. You get off. If you know there’s an a rest area five, six miles off the road, you get in the right lane and you stay focused and do what you have to do to make it to that rest stop and get off the road.

15:17 Now, once you get off the road, sometimes with people, 45 minute nap refresh you and you can get going again. But don’t drive heavy.

15:26 There’s substantial consequences if you do. I mean, life or death.

15:30 Guy pulling a looked like he pulled a truck right into the trees. Straight ahead. That’s what happened. Or worse.

15:37 Oh, absolutely.

15:42 Gerard Lehman with us here on the Six-Figure Trucker with Norton Transport. Gerard, how long have you been driving a truck?

15:48 I got my CDL back in 2002 and I got it just because I wanted to get it and I sold and financed trucks in 2006. And I started when I financed them, especially a buyer who wasn’t from the area, I offered to deliver the truck, right?

16:08 And then they paid me separately. So that’s how I got driving. And then drove box trucks for a while, which those are challenging. A lot of people don’t understand that a 26 foot box truck is a challenge.

16:22 Sure. The weight and the distribution of it.

16:24 Well, the it’s not. Imagine being a semi-D driver a flatbed versus a 53 ft box trailer. Which one’s easier to back up and park?

16:37 The flatbed.

16:38 Right.

16:39 Right. Sure. And so I d I’ve driven on and off for several years. I drove multi five axle dump truck for a couple years that involved blacktop. That’s a challenge doing blacktop especially in the residential areas and supermarkets that have these concrete islands that they plant trees and shrubs and so I did that that’s similar to a box truck. So I’ve been driving on and off since 2002.

17:08 That’s a lot of experience. And before we touch about that experience behind the wheel, I was listening there where you said that you used to be on the other side working not behind the wheel. Do those two marry together?

17:22 Well, they did with me. I was not going to sell I was not going to be involved with the trucking industry without being able to drive the units. It just and the reason for that is I’ve since I was a kid, a youngster in grade school, and the high school I went to was close to a highway that had traffic lights. So, we had no air conditioning, by the way. So, the windows were open. So, me and some other guys, we’d always listen to the trucks, the semiis off from the traffic light.

17:57 And that it just that just intrigued me. That’s what got me interested in trucks and start, you know, find out what kind of truck use that what kind of engine and etc. And I just ever since I was a youngster going down the road, I never missed a semi that went the other way or when I was passing one whether I was riding or driving. So, I’ve always liked trucks. Even today getting in a getting a Kenworth T680, a T880, it’s like a somewhat of an amusement park ride. It’s a thrill.

18:31 That’s amazing that you can recall the moment when you were attracted to this business and the fact that it still carries on to today. I mean, is that a sensation you get each time you drive in there? It’s not a mundane type thing, but it’s a—

18:46 Oh, no. It’s a— No, no, no. It’s a— No, the next week I’ll be driving Kenworth all week. Mostly T680s, but I think there’s a couple T880s. There’s something about climbing up those two steps and getting in there. And then, you know, the power that these things have, even though you’re not pulling anything, just the power and how these they’re magnificent pieces of machinery. The these automatic transmissions in these trucks today, the computer that is reading all the signals and how these things shift and they shift by floating each gear and it’s incredible what this industry has accomplished.

19:24 I mean, some of these transmissions, I mean, obviously, I’m new to this business, only 7 months in, but some of these transmissions are what, 18 gears we’re talking about? Well, it’s the sticks today. The three most common transmissions if you’re fortunate to have a stick is either a 10-speed, 13-speed, or 18-speed. Most of the independent truckers, they want that 18-speed. So, when they’re going up in any part of the country where there’s hills, they want to be able to do that quick shift on the fly—

19:58 And keep rolling. I the Mack I brought down out of Macungie that went to Aurora, Indiana. That was big, beautiful Mack Anthem. It only had a 10-speed and I asked the lady who I delivered it to, she owns the Mack dealership. And I said, is this a fleet truck? She said, “Yep.” I said, “I knew it wasn’t an independent trucker because it has a 10-speed.” And she says, “Yeah, and that’ll hurt the resale value when they want to get rid of this thing.” And she’s absolutely correct. So, the two most popular stick shift transmissions are 13 and 18-speed. The most popular automatic transmissions are 10 and 12-speeds.

20:38 Absolutely. Now, this is Gerard Lehman who hails from the Buckeye State. I know that’s where you live now. Is that where you were born? Is that home base or home base now?

20:48 Born at a hospital in Cincinnati. Grew up in northern Kentucky, which is just across the river from Cincinnati, Ohio.

20:56 Oh, absolutely. Covington.

20:58 Campbell. Covington is in is in Kenton County. Kenton County is a county on the other side of the river. And then there’s Campbell County, which is also on the other side of the river from downtown Cincinnati.

21:10 Gotcha. Now, I wanted to ask you this question. As a driver, do you like to stay in the Midwest or are you wide open? Let’s take on the whole country. Well, I’m wide open to take on the whole country and especially to some states I haven’t been to yet. It was two months ago, I think by now. I took a truck out of Kenworth out of Chillicothe, went up to Minnesota, and then I had a short ride over to a company that puts a cement mixer on the chassis. So, I picked up one and Dodge Center, Minnesota, and drove it to Mississippi.

21:45 Right.

21:46 And I had never been to Mississippi before. And where I delivered it. I actually went past Mississippi State University. Beautiful campus. I was glad to get to see that. I have not been to Louisiana. I have not been to New Mexico and I definitely I always look for runs there, but now all over. I love going to the north. I like going to the west and northwest. Going through South Dakota, you know, Wyoming Idaho. Absolutely just beautiful driving. So, if I got this straight, you were going through Starkville, Mississippi, Mississippi State’s campus there. What time of the year was it?

22:24 Oh, it was two months ago and it was warm. It was I came out of Minnesota, cloudy and cool. I got down went through Arkansas, got down into Mississippi, sunny and very warm.

22:34 I wanted to double back with you about couple of regions there. You were talking about Montana and Wisconsin. I mean, not Wisconsin, Montana, South Dakota, those areas. Explain to people who’ve never been there and you sitting behind that large wheel, that big windshield, driving out. What’s it like going through those areas and seeing it from the open road?

22:58 Okay, first off, you know, Montana, South Dakota, North Dakota, Colorado, they call that big sky country. And I’ve often wondered why do they call it big sky? Hard to explain, but if you drove it on a sunny day, you’d see why they call it Big Sky Country. Because you have these beautiful terrains. It’s flat somewhat, but you have these rolling hills, right?

23:27 Very unique rolling hills. And then you have this blue sky which seems to be way, way up there. And when you’re driving, you look at that and you say, “Now I know why they call it big sky country. It’s like the separation.”

23:41 Like a separation.

23:43 Wow. That’s cool.

23:45 And then when you get into Utah and Arizona, it’s a whole different look. And it’s even more beautiful in my opinion. If you’ve never driven through Utah, you have to drive through Utah to understand what I’m saying here.

24:02 I’ve personally have been out to Utah, not Utah, but just the four corners and spent a lot of time in New Mexico. And I’m from the southeast. There is something distinctly different with the color of the sky. When you get to New Mexico, Utah, it’s like that azure blue, the land of enchantment as they say in New Mexico. And you being someone who’s seen so much more. Is that something that’s true as far as you see the difference in the color of the sky in say New Mexico, Utah versus Ohio?

24:34 Oh, no question. First of all, Ohio, I mean, it’s a good state, but Ohio has always been known as there’s always a filter, a slight filter, even on a sunny day. I mean, it’s sunny, but it you don’t get the clear. I think that’s part, now that you mentioned, I think that’s part of the reason they call it Big Sky Country, too, because it’s so clear, crisp, and you really get the impact of the blue, the blue sky—

25:01 Right? You know, we’re talking about the aesthetics of places like Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, and New Mexico, Utah, but let’s kind of drill down on Ohio, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Wisconsin for the trucking industry and the factories that support it. Those are key states.

25:24 Oh, yes indeed. And the thing about I never at wintertime it can be tough in Minnesota. We all know why. But Minnesota is an easy state to drive through. It doesn’t you just seem to be able to drive through Minnesota.

25:38 Mhm.

25:38 Ohio it had Ohio’s a pretty good state to drive through, especially if you’re going east west. You got the 80 interstate 80 and it’s a pretty decent condition in Ohio. Minnesota roads are surprisingly they get cold winters, but Minnesota interstates are not near like Pennsylvania and New York. Pennsylvania terrible interstates just they just haven’t I don’t know what the deal is and fuel is very expensive in Pennsylvania fuel is not so bad in Minnesota right talk about that for a moment there you were talking about the conditions of the roads but fuel I mean that’s impacting everyone just the truck driver it’s not just the trucking industry it’s not just the transport companies the driveaway companies but that drives up everything, the price of food, lodging—

26:32 Airfare—

26:33 Airfare, everything down the road. But talk about it from a driver’s perspective, particularly in driveaway. I mean, you’re one of our successful drivers. How do you do it? How much does it bank on load planning, being smart about where you’re going, where you’re staying? How do you make that work for you? I mean, you’ve done it in the past. You’ve been on the road for a long time, but now it’s more of a challenge with the price of fuel.

26:59 Yeah. What I do, and this is very easy to do, there’s several websites. All you have to do is Google statebystate fuel prices or I do statebystate diesel fuel prices and you’ll get a list of sites that’ll give you the current, not four days ago, the current price for diesel. So, if I’ve got a run that’s let’s say it’s going to be 1,800 miles, then I do that. I go in and I look and I get a median and let’s say I’m going to be in one state, you know, 400 and something miles of that trip. The rest of the states are 280 miles and that then, you know, I take it as a percentage. This state here that may have a high fuel cost, I’m going to be in that state longer than the other states.

27:50 So, I get a median price of what’s it’s going to cost me to take this truck out there. How much fuel are we going to need to put in the tanks—

27:58 Right?

27:58 And then I calculate that out and I look at the job and look at the rate and see if it’s going to be if I’m going to have a profitable run. And I don’t see how you can drive long distances and not do that. For a guy like you who thinks through their load plan, thinks through their fueling, what would you say is advice to some other drivers who may not be as thoughtful and deliberate in planning where they’re going to go and they may end up losing money because in driveaway, you know, you have to be you got to be ahead of the game, particularly with the fuel prices. What would your advice be to those drivers who may not have figured out, hey, I can make money here and I can save money here?

28:46 Okay, I have this conversation all the time for two reasons. One, I do lift and Uber often. All the time, week by week. Next week, I’ll probably be in Uber and Lyft every day at least once. And I meet other drivers. I meet drivers on Greyhound all the time. And I ask them, we’ll get talking and I don’t pry in to what they’re doing, but they say they’ll start talking and I listen and then they’ll tell me this, tell me that. And I say, well, you know, how’d you do on that run? And then they give me that blank look. And they say, I don’t know yet. I haven’t calculated it. And I just think to myself, you’re exactly right. You don’t know because you didn’t plan ahead. When a dispatcher at Norton, for example, offers me a run, I get out the pad of paper and I get my pen. I have a calculator on my phone and I say, “All right, you sit tight. I’ll be back with you.”

29:47 He knows exactly what I’m doing. And I start I Google the state by state where I’m going, fuel prices, and I get an idea. I did I just did it to Here’s an example. I just did it to a dispatcher the other day that they had a cement mixer going to Florida.

30:04 Mhm.

30:05 And I told him I says, “This is going to take 200 I know what those cement mixers I know how much fuel they use.” I said, “Going down to Florida.” I said, “It’s going to take 278 gallons of fuel.”

30:20 What’s the MPG on one of those mixers? Was it a drum or a volumetric?

30:25 No. The drum. The one I took to Mississippi. The best it got was 5.2. Most of the time it got 4.9. I’d hate to see what they got when they were loaded with concrete. Oh my goodness.

30:36 They usually don’t travel that far.

30:38 Oh no.

30:40 Right. So that’s where someone could get hurt. Someone could say, “Ah, okay. I’ll take that. I’ve never been in a cement mixer.” And they take it and you’re going to put a lot of fuel in cement mixer.

30:51 Oh yeah. They’re heavy. And you got to calc how much. You look at the rate, how much they have built in for fuel, and then calculate how much you’re going to spend on fuel. And if it’s not a good fit, you tell the dispatcher. You just don’t say to them, “Nah, I’ll pass.” You got to tell them why. You got to say, “Here’s why I can’t take that run.” So they know, so they can communicate. You know, we’ve touched on a lot of the meat and potatoes about trucking here in our conversation. This is Gerard Lehman with us here on the Six-Figure Trucker on Norton Transport. We’re lucky to have a guy with the knowledge and the background that Gerard has. We talked a little bit about the beauty out on the open road. I want to kind of touch on a little bit what’s the worst lane you’ve ever had and the best lane you’ve ever had—

31:43 As far as what the fir the best versus the worst run.

31:47 Not necessarily the run, but I guess from an aesthetical point of man, this is something I could not have seen if I had not taken this lane. And on the other side of the coin, man, this is something I wish I had never seen.

32:01 Oh, I see. Usually negative situations have more of an impact, but to be perfectly honest in driving a truck, the beauty, the beautiful runs, the what I call a great run, those have the most impact on me. I took for the, you know, the company we the company, you know, you work for and I drive for, I took the run out to Las Vegas from Chillicothe.

32:29 Mhm. And then I got an additional run. One of the other dispatchers called and said, “You know, while you’re out there, can you go on down to Marino Valley, California, and drop off and pick up and come back to Las Vegas?” And I lived in California for 10 years, so I’m familiar with Marino Valley. The entire trip was sunny, no rain. I love California. The trip out there was absolutely beautiful. Not just the sunny skies, the terrain, the scenery. It was a drive you could get complacent on, which you don’t want to—

33:03 Right?

33:03 But it was that comfortable. It was a nice truck. It was a Kenworth T880 and it just roll along. That was right there is one of the nicest. I love driving into Vegas. Traffic is hectic as can be, but there’s something about driving in to Las Vegas.

33:21 Sure. That city in the desert.

33:24 That’s right. You get excited when you start to see the strip 14 m sign says Las Vegas 14 miles and you think there’s no way that’s 14 miles away. Yes, it is. But it’s a thrill. That right there is one of my best worst. It’s going to be going to the northeast—

33:42 Right?

33:43 Out of Ohio in the winter months.

33:45 Mhm.

33:46 Snowh Maine, a surprise snow squall in Cleveland. But you can get those at any time. At any time. And then you drive and all of a sudden the snow stops then you drive from all of a sudden you get hit again New York and so when you’re driving up there from December even November through March you can get hit with snow and possible ice if you’re in a tractor just a simple you know tractor dual axle you have to that’s where you have to caution and meaning get off the road and if there’s no room at a truck stop which is a good chance there’s not going to Then you go ahead and bite the bullet and you roll into that hotel.

34:27 Gotcha. You know, this is something what you’re touching on there which people in the industry know, particularly drivers, the Northeast basically from Baltimore North is very, how can I say this?

34:42 Unpredictable.

34:43 Unpredictable and undesirable for drivers. But for those who are not drivers who may hear this here on the Six-Figure Trucker Norton Transport with Gerard Lehman, why is that? What I mean, you kind of touched on a lot of the weather aspects of it, but a lot of drivers frankly don’t want to go to those areas and you being a guy who’s been behind the wheel 20 years, why is that?

35:07 All right, this one here is pretty easy to answer. First of all, you can have decent temperature, no snow, no ice. Then you have another thing to deal with. Fog. Fog is part of the Northeast, especially Pennsylvania and New York.

35:25 Mhm.

35:26 And if you’re driving at night, which is mostly when you’re going to experience the fog, you can be driving along and all of a sudden you hit fog and it can go on for 100 miles easy. No one likes driving in fog. It’s a very insecure drive. It’s a very unknown. And then here’s the other part of the problem. Let’s say you’re heading through Pennsylvania or New York 2 3 in the morning. You hit fog and what do you do? You say, “I’m just going to take I’m going to play it safe. I’m going to take it easy. I’m going to slow down and do 50.” Now, these truckers that have been driving that route for years, you better make sure you’re in that right lane with your flashers on. If you’re doing 50—

36:10 They could do it in their sleep. No pun intended.

36:12 They will. That’s exactly right. They will blow by you. You will say, “How in the hell can they be driving that fast in this fog?”

36:22 Mhm.

36:22 And it’s because they’ve been doing it. It’s usually it’s guys over 40. They’ve been through it. And a lot of those guys are independent truckers.

36:32 They know what lies ahead—

36:34 And they roll. If they hit a deer, they hit a deer.

36:39 And that’s their attitude—

36:41 Right? So that’s a big part of the reason. The other one is congestion, rain, and the closer. There’s something about New York a lot of drivers want nothing to do with—

36:51 It’s the toll roads. I mean, I would think is one factor.

36:54 Well, here’s the biggest reason. I’m going to give you the biggest reason. It’s not weather related. New York is not kind to truckers. There are very few truck stops in New York. So, it’s that insecurity and looking at that fuel gauge. Mhm.

37:10 Yeah, they do have the service plazas, but those service plazas, they’re great for car drivers—

37:18 Right?

37:18 A typical service plaza, they could have 30 to 50 spots for truckers to park, but they may have one, two at the most fuel tanks.

37:28 Mhm.

37:28 So, you could roll in there and be 67 deep to get fuel in New York.

37:34 Now, I was going to ask you, you’re in your 60s now from what you told us there—

37:38 Correct? And you’ve been in driving for 20 years, 20 plus I guess now or right at 20 and you’ve been in the industry for that long. Could you see yourself doing anything different or is this something that you really it’s in your wheelhouse?

37:52 Well, what’s caused this to become my wheelhouse is this was my pre-retirement gig and what I was going to do is I have not applied for social security yet on purpose. I’m just rolling the dice on that game if you understand what I mean.

38:12 Oh, absolutely.

38:13 Yeah. I’ve elected to win. So, and I still have two kids in college and I do my best to still they have jobs, but I still want to provide for him. So, I was going to do like a oh, I’ll do a run here, maybe a run a week. I work just as hard now as I ever have.

38:32 Right.

38:33 And why do I do it? Because I like it. That is—

38:36 I like it for a number of reasons. I’m by myself so no one’s in that cab annoying me. I don’t want anybody to think that, you know, this guy’s an a-hole. I’m not. But the only people that tend to aggravate me are lousy drivers.

38:52 Right. I can tell you right now from what you just said, the caption or the title of this episode is, “Why do I do it?” Because I like it.

39:02 Because I like it. I like when I get at when I get a Baltimore Monday morning and I’m going to hop in a 680 and take it to Vineland, New Jersey. It’s that I call it climbing those two steps and getting in that cab and just and taking off and it’s just, you know, after you do all the prep, your pre-trip, get your mirrors perfectly. That’s another thing. Anybody driving, any senior driver listening to me will know they’ll will’ll give me a high five is don’t move that truck. I don’t care if you if it doesn’t have electronic mirrors. I don’t care if you have to get out of the truck six or seven times. You make sure those mirrors are perfect. How much do you feel like as far as when you see, not to get into agism or any of that, but younger drivers on the road, do you feel like they need more information from guys like you who have been on the road for decades?

40:03 Absolutely. And here’s why. This used to be an older man’s industry. It’s not anymore. Most of the drivers on the road are younger men. Trucking schools, they’re full. They week after week they have lots of students and good because the industry is great right now. You can make money in this industry. But I still pass too many drivers that got that you can tell they got one hand on the wheel and they got their other hand’s got a cell phone in it.

40:33 Mhm.

40:34 You can’t do that. You cannot do that.

40:38 And it can be catastrophic.

40:39 It can be catastrophic. It can be catastrophic. Maybe not so much for them, but for another driver—

40:45 Right?

40:45 And the other thing, they all do a good job of using their turn signals. That’s one thing I’ll say about this industry. Truckers use their turn signals. I do think there’s a lot of younger drivers that are driving too fast. They don’t have the tenure yet. At night time, it is nothing for these guys to roll 75 plus miles an hour.

41:06 Wow. Now—

41:07 If you’re going to drive that fa fast, you cannot even think of a cell phone, much less have one in your hand.

41:14 Absolutely. I mean, you’re making good points there. And one point I picked up on, you were talking about within that answer of that question, you can make good money doing this. And of course, this episode is called the Six-Figure Trucker. Of course, this is Gerard Lehman with us here on Norton Transport. You were talking about you have some kids in college, you want to support them. Has this industry and of course working with us has it lent itself to give you that avenue where you can do that?

41:43 Yes, but you got to keep something in mind. That’s a great question, but there’s a butt to it. Everything’s not about money. I still do this because I like driving those trucks. So here’s what I get. I get a good wage. How do I get a good wage? I do my homework. I turned down, you know, one thing about the company you work for at Norton, the dispatchers are assertive. They’ll call you and say, “Hey, are you ready for a run or we’ve got a run for you?” I don’t mind that at all. They could do that all day. But they also know that I’ll call them back and say, “Nope, no, I’ll pass on that one because I do my homework.” You do your homework and just don’t take a run because there’s a run. You get to make money and do something you like to do. And that’s what’s good about this industry.

42:35 You know, you were talking about something that we look at from our side, too. And of course, you know, we try to be advocates and partner up with the drivers, but being selective about making money in driveaway trucking. Talk about the fact that you don’t want to do something that says, “Okay, this is a great run. It’s going from point A to point B, but you got to get from B to C.” Yeah, that’s right.

42:58 Talk about that as a driver. I mean, I think we see some newer drivers like, man, that’s attractive. And it is, but then if you don’t have a way out, I know I’m speaking about the obvious, but from a driver’s perspective, how important is that to you? Because I’m thinking back to our conversation we had a few weeks ago about that load plan we put together, but unfortunately it didn’t work out because of a breakdown with the truck. But how important is that to I mean, it’s obvious you’re a thinking man and you think about these things when you do it. But in driveaway trucking, that kind of planning from A to B, B to C, sometimes C to D.

43:36 That’s right. When I say do your homework, the price of fuel and how much fuel a truck’s going to cost, that’s just part of it. When you take it, take an example. If you take a truck, if somebody takes truck out to the west coast or up to the northwest, it’s unlikely you’re going to get a back haul.

43:54 Mhm.

43:54 Okay. So, you deliver the truck. It was a lot of miles. And when you saw the load, when the dispatcher presented it, you saw, oh my goodness, 2100 miles. Damn, I got to grab that. Oh, really? You number one, you got to calculate your fuel. I took a run once for another company and it was a type of truck that utility companies, telephone companies, and cable companies use—

44:18 Right?

44:19 With Okay. 50-gallon tank on it. I’m taking it to Spokane, Washington. 50 gallon tank.

44:26 You’re not going to get far.

44:27 I stopped 13 times.

44:29 Oh my goodness.

44:30 Okay. So, you got to I never calculated the amount of time.

44:34 Yeah, time is money.

44:35 Yeah, that’s right. So, I ended up I knew what the fuel surcharge was that they added in on the run. The run looked fantastic.

44:44 Mhm.

44:45 Out of my pocket, I spent $542 on fuel out of my pocket—

44:50 In addition to the surcharge.

44:52 Oh, yes. Out of pocket. Then I had to get back. And when all was done, I didn’t make a great deal of money for driving 2100 miles. But what I say to myself, next time you’ll do your homework better. Next time, now you know what the fuel consumption is. Just because a company says we’ve got this much built in for fuel surcharge, you have got to go through the calculation process because if you think, oh, well, they’ve got my fuel covered. That’s not necessarily true. So, when I go to the when I take a long trip, especially to the West Coast, and I got to get back, first thing I look at is who’s got the red eye. Does the airport have the red eyee?

45:40 The midnight flight. Those are always your cheapest flights.

45:44 One thing I picked up, you were talking about the red eye. I can tell you’re a student of the game. Not just the redeye, but I’ve talked to you before. I think I’ve actually talked to you when you were on a Greyhound, which was the way it went before Uber and Lyft came into the play for driveaway trucking. But you still use the Greyhound.

46:02 Every week. Every week. Yeah. Every single week I’m on it. I tell you how annoying it is. I’ve got several I mean several free ticket reward rewards from Greyhound. I can’t use them because every time I try to cash it in, they say, “Whoops, can’t use it on that flight.” But that’s how often I’m on a Greyhound.

46:26 And you got to plan that. You got to, you know, I say to the dispatcher all the time, if he has a run that looks good, I say, “Now, you hold tight. I got to look and see what my costs are getting out of there.” Well, you can bet it’s going to be a bus ride. Now, sometimes when I go to the Northeast, which happened two weeks ago, I went up to Fort Edward, New York. Mhm.

46:47 And it just so happened they had an Amtrak station at Fort Edward, New York. This is up beyond the Adirondacks—

46:55 Right?

46:56 This little town had an Amtrak stop. And I got on I could get on that thing and go to Manhattan to pick up a bus and it was only 59 bucks. It was a 4hour ride on a train. That That was a deal. I snatched it. But that’s what you got to do when you’re taking these long runs. If a dispatcher has to wait and even if they say, “Well, you know, someone else may want that run,” I say, then if someone else wants it, you let them have it. I do not let them, you know, expedite me into making a decision. And when I call them back, and if I say, “I’ll take that run,” that means I did my homework.

47:36 We got Gerard Lehman with us here on the Six-Figure Trucker from Norton Transport. You know, I’d said earlier that the title of this episode was I do it because I like it or it could be do your homework. I’m torn here between which of the two it’s going to be. Do your homework or because I like it. We’ll have to come up with that decision.

47:56 You’re going to like it more if you do your homework. If you got a minute, I’ll give you an example.

48:02 They go hand in hand.

48:04 What’s that?

48:05 They go hand in hand. Yeah. I when I sit at a bus station sometimes I have layovers for four or five hours and somebody will say to me, “What do you do?” And I say, “I transport trucks.” They say, “Well, I do the same thing.” So, what happens? You get in the conversation. And I’ve talked to so many people say, “Yeah, I’m going to deliver this here. I’m going to get on a plane and go here.” I just don’t get it. I say, “Really?” And I say, “What’s that cost?” And when they say it all comes out in the wash, that tells me that they have no clue. Gerard Lehman, we absolutely appreciate you being with us here tonight on the Six-Figure Trucker. Gerard, I wanted to tell you after we get wrapped up here, I wanted to ask you some of your final thoughts about driveaway trucking, but I’m going to give you a call about an opportunity coming down the road once we get off here. What are your some of your final thoughts that you would say to someone who is thinking about getting into driveaway trucking or someone who is new to the business and doesn’t have the experience that you have?

49:08 What would you offer to them?

49:10 Okay. I have this conversation all the time with Lyft and Uber drivers because they like to drive and I’ll tell them what they need to do. Go on the company website first of all and let them know that you’re interested. If you don’t have your CDL, I tell them what they need to do. But if they have a CDL, I tell them, you know, call this company, go on their website, and if you like to drive, and if you like the thought of driving large trucks, then you need to go check this out. And then I tell them all the time, they get my phone number and my email and I say, “You call me and I’ll be a tutor to you anytime and I’ll tell you the things that I’ve mistakes I’ve made, the things I’ve learned from mistakes.” And I said that’s free of charge and that’s what they need to do. Go do it. Pursue it. Go look into it.

50:04 There you have it. The words from Gerard Lehman. He’s been driving for 20 plus years there on the road. We’re lucky to have him here at Norton Transport. He does it because he likes it and he does his homework. Gerard, thanks for joining us. All right, you guys have a good time out there on the road and always be careful. The Six-Figure Trucker brought to you from Norton Transport.

50:31 Six-Figure Trucker is brought to you by Norton Transport. Norton Transport is a driveaway trucking company that customers can rely on. It offers excellent independent contract driving opportunities to professional, courteous, and qualified drivers that can provide the kind of service we deliver. If you’re interested in learning more about Norton or just want to subscribe to the show, check out Six-FigureTrucker.com. That’s Six-FigureTrucker.com.